Scarlet Jewels: More 'Waking Life' Philosophical Musings....
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 More 'Waking Life' Philosophical Musings....18 comments
picture2002-12-28 10:13, by Julie Solheim-Roe

Finally finished viewing 'Waking Life' (after a week off up North for Holiday Stuff)... the idea that time is our saying 'No' to a Universe/ God Idea... that wants us, is waiting for us, to say 'Yes' to embrace the One Moment, of Now, the Eternal Moment. Of course we get that from all corners, philosophically, theologically, spiritual New Age and Psychedelic Guru jargons... but indeed is it that simple? Are we all waiting in Life's Waiting Room, indeed that we are NOT YET ALIVE? This is possible. I have always mused about this one Point, as I wrote on Sunday. There is this one Great Point, that I return to the edges of again and again. It is the 'Voice' that us writers touch upon. Great artisans are able to covet the corners and edges of that eternal Familiar, that Eternal Return... again and again we begin to awake and forget to remember... all in this eternal dream of the awakening. I remember the points in this life's time and space, dot to dot around the points trying trying trying to get back and forth to that final place, that point of redemption. Then of course there were crazy moments in the meditation years, where again, one imagines that you are There. But could we possibly ever Be There in these bodies? Could all the puzzle pieces only fit together to our demise, of being made whole when indeed only as the fragments of the broken light shadows, can we reflect back and look upon ourselves and make a reference point?

Here is an educational site about Nietzsche's Treatise... and I agreed with it's ideas about Nietzsche's problem on metaphysical rhetoric:
"In addition, this discussion of the mechanics of the Eternal Return begs the question: The why of the Eternal Return. What does it accomplish? Even, what does it will? At some point we must ask ourselves what implications this patently metaphysical theory has with the otherwise material nature of Nietzsche's philosophy.

"We can quickly see that the Eternal Return suffers from the same malady as does theological theories over the existence of God. Both are conjecture. Neither the Eternal Return, nor God, is provable in any empirical or logical system. So we must ask ourselves, how do we cope with the Eternal Return? Do we approach it from its metaphysical ramifications? Do we accept it on, of all things, faith? Or do we take another approach? We must remember that the real problem with the idea of the existence of God isn't that it is conjecture, but that the Will to Truth places the mantle of reality/doctrine over that conjecture. This is the fallacy inherent in all metaphysics. Metaphysics as a discipline is conjecture, and to discuss it as though it were fact, is, if nothing else, faulty rhetoric. If, however, when we approach the Eternal Return, we approach it as mythos rather than metaphysics, we find a qualitatively different concept waiting for us. (Here, I am admittedly defining mythos--in a binary with metaphysics--as those conjectures we admit are narratives which are unprovable, and un-disprovable, yet, still compel us.) We find then, that the significant question we must ask about the Eternal Return, isn't whether it is Truth, but how does it affirm life, or through it, how do we affirm life?"
Further, I found an astrologer who actually looks at Nietzsche's chart as a symbol of our current collective psyche's dilemna--indeed, that which Nietzsche embodied:
"Depth psychology, existentialism and the human potential movement: the idea and practice of the liberation of the self involving a necessary opening to the hidden Dionysiac depths; the necessary break with the collective in its conventional, conformist and often cultural/moral mediocrity; individual empowerment through a healthily strong ego; the belief that deep societal change can only come about through personal transformation and individual growth in consciousness -- all this constitutes the best and deepest of the Nietzschean insights!
For myself, the most haunting description of the problem of Eternal Return was written in the start of Milan Kundera's The Unbearable Lightness of Being.

Here's a good interview with Kundera about'Unbearable'.

And, finally some further comments by-Igor Abramov:
"In his book, Kundera discusses the issue of eternal return. He says that if the idea of an eternal return is valid, then human beings always carry the heaviest burden of all-"the weight of unbearable responsibility."(5) However, Kundera writes that our world is morally perverse-everything in this world is forgiven in advance, thus, everything is "cynically permitted."(4) If one knows that his actions will not carry consequences in the times to come, one acts recklessly, without any consideration. Kundera rightly notices that Hitler's actions were a direct result of the world's conviction that there is no eternal return. Therefore, Hitler was free to commit all his crimes without being punished for them. Sometimes the lightness of being allows a person to interpret that anything that happens to him has no weight, no permanent importance in his life, no significance. Thus, he is free to continue living free of burden, ignoring any occurrences."

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28 Dec 2002 @ 13:43 by ming : Mythos
I find myself being increasingly drawn to mythos over metaphysics. That's a good distinction. Instead of walking around thinking and insisting that "this is the way it is", there will always be an awareness that it is a story. It makes it much easier to discuss deep things with just about anybody, as there is no need to assert or defend anything.  

28 Dec 2002 @ 20:14 by strydg : returns
maybe this eternal return thing is real, maybe it isn't. maybe Nietzsche knew something, maybe he didn't. Is there or has there ever been a "world conviction that there is no eternal return"? Would Hitler not have done what he did if "the world" was convinced of an eternal return? How can one, or everyone, be convinced of an "eternal return?" When " imagines that you are There" who is "one," who is "you," and where is "There"?  

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